Ijma?

is the Hadith on ijma mutawaatir?

as-salamu alaikum,

1. i dont know with whom you had this discussion or which discussions you witnessed but if they argued with the Hadith of the 73 Sects and that Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala wouldnt allow the majority to be misguided than i would conclude from that, that the level of knowledge of this discussions were very low.

Thats because the Hadith of the 73 Sects which is transmitted from 8 different sahabah is even according to sunni hadith scholarship despite its famousness a weak hadith. The strongest sanad according to them is that of the Riwayah of Abu Huraira but that particluar hadith doesnt include the famous statement „all of them are in fire except one“.

You can understand its weakness by looking at the matn (text) too:

-Why should they be 73 Sects? Why not 87? Or 61?
-On which ground should the muslims seperate in one sect more than the christians who themselves split in one sect more than jews?
-Has modern times not proven that there are much more sects in all of this religions?

-The Quran is stating that if you belief in Allah and his Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa salam and dont do any of the grave sins and fullfil your duties you will enter jannah, so why should a guy who was member of a sect who had a wrong opinion on a secondary non grave matter but was despite all that a example of a muslim enter hell? Is that not in contradiction with the quran?

Let assume that this Hadith is actually true even than it has to be understood according to the guidance of quran and ahl al bayt.

So the best explanation would be that the intention with the 73 Sects in Hell except one would be sects who claim to be muslims but have deviated so gravely that they are not counted from the muslimin or are like grave sinners, like people who dont believe in authenticity of quran or people who follow a new selfproclaimed prophet who is subscribing himself to islam and the prophet muhammad salallahu alayhi wa ala alihi wa salam.

In short this hadith is no proof against us.

And about majority and minority the quran is giving you the definite answer:

وَإِنْ تُطِعْ أَكْثَرَ مَنْ فِي الْأَرْضِ يُضِلُّوكَ عَنْ سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ ۚ إِنْ يَتَّبِعُونَ إِلَّا الظَّنَّ وَإِنْ هُمْ إِلَّا يَخْرُصُونَ

"And if you obey most of those upon the earth, they will mislead you from the way of Allah. They follow nothing but conjecture, and they do nothing but lie."

2. Ijmaa in terms of aqeedah? This is a point of misunderstanding. Aqidaa is established by certainity not by „Ijtihad“. For a Ijmaa to take place there has to be a case where the answer isnt clear in the first place and the mujtahideen are trying to find the ruling of it, that leads to a Ijmaa. Aqidaa on the other hand is either clear with evidences from the quran and aql, or it is a matter of dispute where there can never be an Ijmaa.

Examples would be: The believe in Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala, his Messengers (alayhim as salam) and his Books and the Malaika (alayhim as salam), these are clearly established by the Aql and Quran. But a matter of dispute would be questions like: Is Shaytan a Djinn or a Angel? Where there prophets outside of banu israil and banu ismail? Etc.

3. Majlis al Shura is not an concept of itiqad in the zaydi madhab. It is more prominent in the sunni school of thougth. They see it as the sunnah of the sahabah to elect an ruler, but it is not a democratic form of majlis contrary it is more an elitist form.

If you mean by Majlis al Shura the concept of parlementary than that is alien to islam.

In zaydi history there were occasions of majlis al shura in the classical meaning were the ulama would gather to approve an imam. The imam would partake in this to spread his legitimacy but from the zaydi point of view it is not a requirement. Because his imamate is established by him fulfilling the requirements and by him using force on all opponents.

As for a parlementary shura that is outside of religion. Theoretically it would be possible for the imam to delegate some matter to such a parlament.

Which Hadith do you mean? Ijmaa is primarly proved by the Quran, there are secondary evidences from the sunnah but them beeing mutawatir or not wouldnt change the legitimacy of ijma.

Wa salamu alaikum

(salam)

I agree with the first point and that is exactly the position I held and the reasons I did. I do not have experience with proving ijma as I previously did not belong to a madhab that recognised it as valid, so I am not familiar with the concept nor do I know where in the Quran, Sunnah, and Ahlul bait it comes from.

I probably should have made that clear before.

wa alaikum as salam,

i understand that, thats not a problem. From your questions i can see that your very interested in knowledge. You will learn all what you need if you stay that way, inshallah.

I assume you have an imami background? or another madhab?

wa salam

shukran